Mental Floss is partner with FilmNation and iHeartPodcasts to bring you the transcripts forGreatest Escapes , a podcast hosted by Arturo Castro about some of the wild safety valve stories across history . In this episode , Ed Helms ( The Hangover , The Office ) avail Arturo unfurl a daring escape from one of the Cold War ’s most eccentric twofold agents : Oleg Gordievsky . Read all the transcriptshere .
Arturo Castro : Hey , guys ! This isGreatest Escapes , a show bringing you thewildesttrue dodging stories of all sentence . Today we ’re recite the story of a Soviet spy who shift sides — and his bonkers attempt to get off from the KGB .
Or as I enounce it … “ keh - buh - guh . ”
I ’m Arturo Castro , and my client today is doer , writer , producer , comedian , musician , trapeze artist , and host of his very own podcast , SNAFU . Ed Helms , everybody ! Welcome , Ed !
Ed Helms : Thank you so much .
Arturo : Queue hand clapping ! Yay !
Ed : Hey , yay . Woo - hoo . So glad to be here . It ’s an honour to be here .
Arturo : Oh , thanks .
Ed : You’re fantastic .
Arturo : You’re fantastic . Really , it think a lot to me that you did this . Man , I ’m such a fan of your podcast , which we ’ll get into in one second .
Something about myself is I find blanched bearded fellow harmonizing , incredibly assuasive .
So I fuck folk music –
Ed : Cool !
Arturo:–folk medicine , man . I ’m such a big fan of family line euphony , Fleet Foxes . Give me that Mumford & Sons , give me all that ’s in force stuff . And you were in a family band , is that right ?
Ed : Yeah . Um , I ’ve , I ’ve never heard , uh , the appeal of folk euphony line quite that room . I love , but I do love that bearded white fashion plate harmonizing , come on .
Arturo : Oh they , they just got out of the lumber trade .
male erecticle dysfunction : It either get your skin crawl or , uh , it just comfort you . And I , I , I honestly go back and off . Sometimes it drives me nuts . But yeah , I , I , uh , I — my two chum from college Jacob Ty Love and Ian Riggs , we went to Oberlin College together and I had a banjo screen background from , from high schoolhouse and , and we just became the , this trio . Then after college , we all moved to New York City to kind of quest after different thing , but kept the music going and , um , and the Lonesome Trio , uh , exist on to this day .
Arturo Castro : The Lonesome Trio . That ’s wonderful . And I got ta tell you , you hump , I , it ’s not , it ’s not even a bit that , that I love folk music . I ’ve never , um — I’ve never been really good at being like kind of stereotypically Latin . Like most people assume that I like , I like salsa or like reggaeton and sh*t , and I ’m really musically , like rhythmically challenged in that sense .
And I , I , I find out Ray LaMontagne for the first meter when I just moved to New York and I was , you cognise , I tried to go to all my friends back in Guatemala being like , you hombre have to hear this sh*t called kinsfolk music . It ’s like really sensitive , like , are you in the forest ? You know ? Um , and so trying to convince people that I ’m actually into folk music music has been a womb-to-tomb journey .
Ed : That ’s so risible .
Ed’s Escape
Arturo : To put the , the timbre for thisGreat Escapething : Do you have one that you view to be an escape of your own ?
Ed : No , you know what ? There ’s a funny account . It ’s just sort of a silly thing that happened in college . I was really into this band Fishbone . Do you — do you remember this ring ?
Arturo : I do n’t know Fishbone .
Ed : They were like a — they were like kind of a heavy ska lot way back in the Clarence Shepard Day Jr. .
Arturo : That hard , heavy ska .
Ed : Yeah . Well , well what ’s suspicious is that they were , um , they were best friends with and toured with the , another isthmus called Biohazard , which was like material metallic element , like , you know , death metallic element kind of , um , and –
Arturo : A Ska band and a alloy band , that ’s a telly show right there .
Ed : Yeah , yeah . They were extremely hardcore and they were really , uh , and they toured together a set and they were very different acts , but everyone would just go to these concerts and go banana . And so I was in college in Ohio and I , we , some friends and I go to go see them in Cleveland and which is , you know , it ’s a rock and roll townspeople .
Arturo : So like , were there lover called , call themselves “ Pisces boners ” ? Or what ’s the like , I ’m sorry , that ’s a stupid question , but I wanna know . I ’ll , I ’ll –
Ed : It ’s a really good question . Um , and I do n’t , I , I for certain did n’t refer to myself as a fish fuckup at the time , but had I reckon of that , I think I would have .
Arturo : Great t - shirts .
erectile dysfunction : And I would’ve — I would ’ve made a band of thymine - shirts and made a lot of money .
Arturo : sad . So you were in Ohio and you were gon na go see Fishbone .
male erecticle dysfunction : OK , so , so we go to the , we go to the , uh , I consider it ’s prognosticate the Apollo Theater in Cleveland , Ohio , to see Biohazard and Fishbone .
Now . I was like , really more into fishbone , stimulate to see them , and they were like kind of joyful , crazy Ska , but Biohazard was first and I was like , love these guys , too . I mean , they ’re just super committed and — but I , but I did n’t know … I kind of — didn’t know , like death metallic element concert etiquette . So I just was like , whatever ’s gon na go down , I desire to be in the middle of it .
I wanna be right up front . And so , you know , it ’s before the show and everybody ’s kind of like mingle around and I ’m looking around , I ’m like , these guy front intense . Like , there ’s a lot of , there ’s like skinhead push in this crowd .
Arturo : Oh no .
Ed : There’s — it ’s like , this is kind of a unearthly vibe and , uh , but like , I’m — I love just a , you know , some human experience . Like , what ’s gon na ha , what ’s this gon na be like ? So I ’m , I ’m decently down in .
Arturo : It ’s alert , yeah .
Ed : Yeah , and I ’m right down in front and , uh , and they start playing that song , uh , “ Carmina Burana . ” Do you know that ?
Arturo : No .
Ed : That , it ’s a famous , it ’s this famous classical medicine that ’s , that sounds like , uh , it ’s fromThe prodigy . It ’s that ’s like that : “ Ooh Ooh Ahh Ahh . ”
Arturo : Uh huh . Oh , yeah . Yeah . “ Da ta ta . ”
Ed : Yeah , exactly . Yeah . So that they start playing that and it ’s catch louder and louder and the tenseness in the room is just getting more and more intense and uh , and the lights are live out . And I ’m on the — I’m in kind of the pit domain and uh , and it ’s really crowd , like first-rate dull and the great unwashed are start to care , leap up and down and get , like , start to get a short bit , I do n’t know , the energy ’s alter .
And uh , and then all of a sudden , uh , a hole , like a vacuum cleaner forms in the middle of the pit , which is to say like , everyone , everyone kind of actualise at the same moment that they did n’t wanna be in the midriff of the pit . And it just start to open up .
I do n’t know what ’s gon na pass . And there ’s a spate of scary looking swell around get existent vivid and can up and frantic . And , and then sure enough , the lights come up on and the , and Biohazard just starts to [ guitar noises ] , and everyone rushes into this void and break down up against the front of the stage with like really vivid mosh Hell craze and ire and like everyone ’s just throwing punches for , but for fun , like , it ’s just a ,
Arturo : Right , right .
Ed : And at first I ’m absolutely terrified . How do I get outta this ?
I do n’t require to get killed . I do n’t need to get — like , fall down and get trampled or something . But the medicine is also kind of awesome and I start seeing people stage diving and I was like , OK , the people that are phase dive are landing on top of the crowd and getting go back . So , uh , so I was like , this is , this is it . This is my escape .
And so I managed to go up up on the , the , the sorting of stanchion or whatever in front of the stage . There was like a , you do it , a little row where these big husky surety dudes were guarding the microscope stage , but in front of that you could climb onto the railing and start into the crowd . And so I did , I mount up and was just like , ahhh!Dove over the stage , land on top and I was passed all the way to the back .
Arturo : To the conceding stand . Directly to the conceding stand .
erectile dysfunction : Directly to a guy hand me a congratulatory beer and he was …
Arturo : Wow , you were like , this is such a …
Ed:–and he was like , congratulations , you ’re still live . But yeah , so I , I did escape with my lifespan .
Arturo : Oh , I ’m really well-chosen you did . And also like , I be intimate that , “ oh , f * * * ” moment that we ’ve all had . When you realize that like you ’re in the wrong blank space at the wrong fourth dimension , you know when like –
Ed : And you ’re badly - fit .
Arturo : Yeah . That you ’re ill equipped .
male erecticle dysfunction : You just do n’t have the knowledge or the , the skillset .
Arturo : You’re like , I just wanna dance , you guy .
Ed : I’m wearing canary . You all have combat flush .
Chapter 1: Switching Sides
Arturo : All right man , let ’s escape . Let ’s stone and roll .
Ed : Oh , yeah .
Arturo : We’re gon na talk about Oleg ’s great relief valve . OK , now to get us there , let ’s speak about who he was and what made him that Soviet spy , and why he switch sides from the Soviets to the West . So , first of all , he was in the kinsperson clientele , good ? This was sort of like a thing that they did .
Now , his dad was a hard-core Communist . Like to the level where he joined the underground police , and was put in direction of indoctrinating new military recruit . And that was how he raised his kids . So you bonk , noBarneyfor Oleg and his older brother , no , no . They both became KGB agent . Why would n’t you ? In 1966 , Oleg got his first assignment outside the USSR , where he was posted to the Soviet Embassy in Copenhagen .
The Danish government knew that he was there , but officially he was just part of the embassy faculty . But in secret , his mission was to manage the internet of underground spies throughout the land . Not that this would ’ve been a real surprisal to the Danes because of the 20 worker at the Soviet Embassy , 14 were undercover agent and –
Ed : I pretty much , if you ’re , if you ’re a Russian in the ‘ LX and ‘ 70s like in another body politic , you ’re probably a spy .
Arturo : Yeah . And also , yeah , I opine the Danes were too fussy being happy to give a f * * * about the spies . They were like , ah , un spy ? Yeah , it ’s coolheaded . I do n’t know .
Ed : Sure . What is it like ? What are you gon na snoop on ? Like what do we have to hide ?
Arturo : Yeah . What are you gon na spy on ? All this happiness and beautiful people like ? Go ahead humans . Spy for it .
Now living outside the iron grip of the Soviet Union was really exciting for Oleg . He savour seeing just how loosey goosey thing were in Copenhagen . Do , do you remember uh , the dear pot story ? This dear pot news report that I ’m about to tell ?
Ed : Yeah , yeah . Honey . Well , is ithoney potorhoney trap ?
Arturo : Honey pot , I conceive is the term .
erectile dysfunction : Honey tidy sum , OK .
Arturo : Buthoney trapwould be more –
OVERLORD / Carl : I am felicitous to tell you it is both a dearest trap and a honey pot .
Ed : Well , you have to have a honey pot to have to set a honey ambuscade .
Arturo : You have to have it . You got ta have it . Thank you , Overlords .
Ed : All right . Um , but no Oleg , uh , I imagine you , we touched on this before , but he ’s , he was a critical , uh , character in the whole Able Archer 83 level that , that my podcast is about . And I ’m so psyched we ’re tattle about him because I have just the diminutive morsel of noesis about Oleg enough to maybe sound like a smarty knickers ,
Arturo : Yeah , yeah . Go ahead .
male erecticle dysfunction : But not , but not enough to really , uh , add anything meaningful . But , um , but , uh , but where were we with Oleg ? He ’s , so , he ’s …
Arturo : So he went for a amble this one time through the Red Light District , which it seems like the , the Nordic states seemed to just all have carmine light districts , you have it off , they just call him the dominion now , I guess .
Ed : Yeah . Sure .
Arturo : So he browsed a shop class that was sell sexual activity miniature , and he even bought some gay porn and impart it home to show his married woman .
He proudly displayed it on his mantlepiece because , you know , exemption . He ’s like , look , they were so flexible , these men , and so he bought a gay porno powder store and he put it on his mantle .
Ed : Literally he ’s , he ’s aroused by the gay pornography , not because it is titillating to him , but because it is such a , he ’s like , can you consider that they are allowed to do this ?
Arturo : And they put him in pictures and they sell them , and they put the red light . It ’s fantastic , you know .
Ed : This would get everyone , this would get you so promptly shot in , in , in the , in Soviet Union at the time .
Arturo : A hundred per centum . And so this , this small purchase is what kind of sets us up for , for , for the goofiness of it . Because one night a local law captain invited Oleg and his wife over for a dinner party so that the Danish spies could cross the flat , and they spotted the magazine and it made them conceive that he was a hundred percent homophile .
Ed : Very . Which is reasonable .
Arturo : Yes . I , I would say particularly if it ’s in your pallium piece , like you ’re just like , you ’re like , hello , welcome to my theater , and here is my , here is what I lie with to do when my wife ’s not here .
Ed : I just wanna commentary — just that this story could never happen today . Like if somebody showed you pornography in an delirious way of life and they were like , can you conceive this is so,—look at the how exuberantly free and happy these the great unwashed in this adult magazine are , and look what like –
Arturo : They’re all smile ! Except for this one guy rope . He ’s got a masquerade party on .
Ed : OK . So the Danes go to his apartment , they witness this homosexual pornography , and they ’re like , oh , obviously he ’s gay . So we ’re going to set a love ambush …
Arturo : There you go .
Ed : … and we ’re function to , uh , attempt to blackmail him to be a , an witnesser because we know he ’s KGB and we want to , uh , throw him . So , uh , so then they get , um , they get a hombre to hit on him at a , at a political party , right ? And , and Oleg ’s just like , oh , what a nice guy . What a favorable cat .
Arturo : This guy rope ’s really well-disposed !
Ed : Like , they just care , make it — they just get nowhere with it . Like there ’s just no traction because that ’s not , that ’s not Oleg ’s persuasion . So , um , it ’s just a failed honey trap .
Arturo : Also , I can imagine , like , sort of the ego hit that , that , like , deadly handsome young man must have had . He ’s like –
Ed : The Danish , yeah .
Arturo:–like what the f * * * ? Like , what is ill-timed with , you do n’t like ze Keller , like what is incorrect with ze Keller . Like , ze Keller ’s beautiful . Um –
Ed : I was specifically take as a honey trap .
Arturo : I am the hottest agent . I am so aphrodisiacal . What the f * * * is unseasonable with this bozo ? And meanwhile , Oleg ’s at his sign being like , mean , man , these Danes are really f***ing squeamish .
So in the destruction , it was n’t actually the Danish recruiting that swayed him to rick against the Iron Curtain , but it was the Soviets themselves .
CHAPTER 2: Oleg’s Turn
Arturo : In 1968 , the Soviets savagely crush the Prague Spring when tank twine into Czechoslovakia to squash an revolt . It was incredibly violent , implausibly blooming . So before this , Oleg had this woolgathering theme of what the Soviet Union was . The stuff that he had learned from his pappa about how dear it was to be a Communist , you get laid , but escort the Prague Spring ultimately convinced him how bestial the USSR was .
Ed : Sure .
Arturo : Um , so Oleg was an unhappy Soviet in 1972 , when one of his erstwhile friends showed up at his apartment unannounced . By the way that he was talking , Oleg recognize that he was being tested by Western spies to see if he would leaf , right ? Chatting with his sidekick , he said how defeated he was in the Soviet Union , and it was a subject matter to them that he was quick to join forces with the West .
Now , I wonder , Ed , what do you think ? What do you intend he was pronounce that , like , made him , uh , realize that he was getting recruited about the West ?
Ed : I just envisage that these kinds of conversations between spies where they ’re trying to sort of suss each other out and , and calculate out if , am I pay , like , is he give me a signal ? Is he giving me an opening ? Should I be — I would just , I , I picture those conversations as extremely tense and , and like lots of like overt blink and kind of like , and like –
Arturo:–wild gesturing towards cheery porn ?
Ed:–like , and like fake laughing , but with like , but , but with like unearthly , vivid eyes .
Arturo : Yeah . It would be , it would be crazy if I like the McDonald ’s , huh ? [ Laughs ]
Ed : Yeah . But Oleg is really , he ’s a really captivating treble agent of , at last because he ’s an dreamer and he ’s not a , uh , like — like a lot of double agents , um , are , uh , are –
Arturo:–in it for the money .
Ed : They’re either in it for the money or they ’re psychotic and they just want the thrill of it . Or because they , uh –
Arturo : They’ve been slighted .
Ed:–or , or because they hate their homeland and they need , you know , they , they want to sort of like doom their fatherland for some reason .
Arturo : Mm - hmm .
Ed : Um , you bang , like , like there are Americans who , who wound up hating America and becoming double agents for the Soviets at the time . But what ’s fascinating about Oleg is that he never did n’t have sex Russia and or the Soviet Union or what , what Russia kind of represented historically . And he never , he never stopped hop for the best for Russia . And he felt that by helping the West , he was help Russia ’s future .
Arturo : Yeah , a hundred percent .
Ed : And , or , or , or the Soviet future .
Arturo : Yeah , and , and to , to your percentage point , here ’s where — where we see how clever Oleg is , right ? Because he also told the KGB that he was gon na go encounter with a British agent , right ? So his bosses in Moscow assure him to go for it . They want to see if they could employ Gordievsky as a pretended double agent to fool the British .
But they did n’t know that Oleg was for tangible , for real , uh , ready to switch sides . When Oleg finally met with the British , he agree to work with them , under three condition .
First , he did n’t wanna attack or hurt any other KGB agent . He was not offer to become a British assassin . Second , he did n’t wanna be secretly photographed or memorialize , which build a lot of f***ing — I ca n’t imagine , like , a undercover agent being , like , but just take a pile of picture of me please . Just like , ensure that you get a good one . It ’s for my album . And third , he would take utterly no pay .
Ed : Right .
Arturo : He was n’t doing this for the money . He was doing it because he no longer consider in this , in how the Soviets were lead it , you know ?
Ed : Right . Right .
Arturo : What would it take for you to become a undercover agent , Ed , in this time ? What would they have to offer you ? You ’re in [ the ] Soviet Union and you ’re like , they ’re like , you got ta defect to America . What would it take ?
Ed : countenance ’s see , this is 19 … this is about , this is , like –
Arturo:’74 .
Ed : OK . 1974 . So I ’m , I ’m like about 1 twelvemonth sometime .
Arturo : Yeah . Yeah . So
Ed : I would guess just like a good , I would just think like a bottle of milk would ’ve done it for me .
Arturo : A bottleful of milk would buy and then you ’re straight off a double agentive role immediately . So , so in 1974 , Oleg started sneaking axial motion of microfilm of documents out of the Soviet home office on his dejeuner breakage , right ?
He would turn over them off to be copied , picked them up on his way back , and dropped them off again before anyone noticed they were escape . But this was also the yr that he get his first computer code name from the British and they named him Sunbeam . What would be your computer code name ?
male erecticle dysfunction : Cowboy Red . No , I do n’t have it away .
Arturo : Cowboy Red . I would care mine to be Fish Boner .
Ed : Fish Boner , good one .
Arturo : Nobody , nobody would lie with . Um , so 1974 was also the year that Oleg met his second wife , Leila . She was a secretary at the World Health Organization in Copenhagen , and the pair began a very down key , very slow motion affair . You sleep with , he had computer code names for this affair too . Also . What is a slow move liaison ?
Overlords . What ? What is this ? That it happened ? Was it tantric ? Is that what you ’re referring to ? Like slow motion ? [ It ’s ] just boring simmering . serve me .
OVERLORD / Carl : That is correct . It took many years for him to get out his first wife and choose Leila .
Ed : Mmkay .
Arturo Castro : OK . Slow motion affair . Got it . So Oleg was , uh , leave behind the Soviets for the British and he was also leaving his first wife for Leila . Also , women make Leila tended to make men in the ‘ 70s go insane .
Ed : Sure !
Arturo : See George Harrison , Eric Clapton , you cognise , like , which is also a crazy story in and of itself . Her name was in reality Pattie Boyd , but whatever .
Ed:[guitar noise ]
Arturo:[guitar stochasticity ] Leila , something in the manner she moves . Mash up ! So after four years in 1978 , things were go really well for both of them . Right ? But Oleg was recalled to Russia . So pack your udder Ed , we ’re locomote to the Kremlin .
CHAPTER 3: Almost Found Out
Arturo : Oleg was post in Moscow for the next few years and he spend this fourth dimension building his new family with Leila .
Ed : Right , right , right .
Arturo : Yeah . They were splice in 1979 and their first daughter was bear the next year . Now , meanwhile she had no idea that he was actually a two-fold federal agent between the Soviet Union for the British . And Oleg was never really comfortable in Russia anymore , so he wanted to be back in England .
Ed : There was no queer smut , which at that point for him , it , again , not a turn on . It just was something that had become like a comfort .
Arturo : He ’s like , yes , yes , yes , majority rule , but what about the homo porn ? Where can we get this ?
Ed : It was a comfort cover for him . Just wants to know it ’s there .
Arturo : Exactly . So in the summertime of 1981 Oleg passed this top-notch undercover agent English exam that qualified him for a post at the Russian Embassy in London , and this is where you ’re speak about . So by the — by that fall , his 2d daughter was born and the KGB were ultimately convinced that the newfangled marriage was more solid than the first one .
This feels like a weird detail , but it was authoritative because it helped the KGB settle that Oleg could be trusted . Right ? They ’re like , if he can make two marriages act upon , he can do this .
Ed : Well , no , they , it is dependable that the KGB , if , if you had a , a rocky relationship with a spouse , then you were a risky agent .
Arturo : Which makes sentience , right ? More collateral . Yeah yeah yeah .
male erecticle dysfunction : Of of course . You couldn’t — there was like more openings for , for , uh , you roll in the hay , to get in bother or blackmailed or whatever .
Arturo : precisely . And , and they ’re like , well , this humans was n’t well-chosen in his first marriage . He left and created a 2nd marriage . This is a honest man . So they let him take the line in London and because if there ’s anything to be said about the KGB , it’s — they’re romantics . Finally , when Oleg go far in London in June , 1982 , he was in easy reach of his British spy friends .
Now he could pass them even more data at even lower risk of exposure . The British spies decided to switch over it up with his nickname — with his codification name , and the raw computer code name was Nocton . This was his British computer code name ? OK . So the Brits , uh , were passing along intel to the CIA too .
And the Americans did n’t know Nocton ’s personal identity , which is important later on , but they did recognize that he was a high ranking KGB officer , so they devote him their own soubriquet and codename . The , the , the spy residential area ’s gon na be up in arms that I keep send for it a nickname . Um , they called them Tickle . So now he is Tickle .
Ed : Tickle . Right , right , right .
Arturo : I , I love the mind of like a copywriter being like , what ’s a catchy one ? You know that that ’s their only , their only job is to pick code names .
Ed : Tickle ! Let ’s call him Tickle !
Arturo : Tickle !
erectile dysfunction : Tickle ’s fun .
Arturo : Yeah , we go with Tickle cause he , ’Cause that ’s what we palpate . We palpate tickled when we get this information .
male erecticle dysfunction : He makes us titter . He take us giggle .
Arturo : So once he was in London , he was able to spend hour talking with them , discussing the KGB methods , the identity of hidden agents . You know , it ’s just tons of secret that MI-6 had never understood before . Now meanwhile , the rest of the KGB was focused on the idea of whether or not the United States and the sleep of their European allies were go to go a atomic war . That ’s where it come in .
Ed : Boom .
Arturo : But one important thing is that the KGB undercover agent were suppose to be tracking all sorts of uncanny things , right ? Like count for sign that the West was preparing for a sudden nuclear attack .
Ed : Uh , no , but it really , it really was fascinating that , that this system that the Soviets countersink up where they were essentially severalise their spy , like , give us intel so that we can seek to figure out if an attack is getting planned . And it was thing like , you know , how many lights are on at the Pentagon –
Arturo : Yeah , that ’s exactly it .
Ed:–and , and — and you ’re like , well , I do n’t have sex . There ’s a hundred lights on tonight at the Pentagon . OK . But normally there ’s 200 , so what ’s go on ? They ’re planning something and there were some thing that you could point to that were more practical . Like , are you seeing scout group movements ? Are you seeing –
Arturo : Right .
Ed:–like , uh , hospitals building up supply or , you know , the — the things that might point they expect to have lots of casualties . Um , those might be fair , uh , indicators of possible warfare engagement . But so much of it was not reasonable that it became this insane , crazy arbitrary algorithm .
Arturo : Arbitrary . I was gon na say , it just seems like , so , like unspeakable , right ? People are like , I do n’t know , secernate me how much , how many burger are they hoard , right-hand ? Because they wanted to know how many , they did . They want to make out how many cows –
Ed : Right
Arturo:–were getting shoot down at a slaughterhouse . And the one that you ’re talking about is like , they , they were monitoring how much pedigree was being stashed in profligate banks , which makes a little more sense –
Arturo:–but like , cows ? I do n’t f***ing sleep with , gentleman .
Ed : Right , right . But it , it just [ depart ] , it just — it ’s like if you ’re convinced something ’s gon na find . And a muckle of historians believe that the Soviets really did recollect that NATO was go to assail them . And so if you , if you recollect that everything you see is gon na be through that optical prism and you ’re gon na be like , uh , what ’s the reason that all of this extra moo-cow slaughtering –
Arturo : Yeah .
Ed:–indicates , indicates a pending nuclear attempt ? And you just sort of filling in the blanks and all of a sudden you have all these reasons .
Arturo : So our guy , Oleg , is caught in the centre of this , right ? He was secernate MI-6 everything he know about the KGB , and then he was telling the KGB whatever they wanted to hear about how many cookies were in the f***ing shop or whatever it was , right ?
Arturo : So he make love that this put him in a really severe spot and he was right-hand to be disquieted , right ? The KGB did know that someone was passing their closed book to the British because the British were deal those secret with the Americans and the Russians , which I did not cognize had a spy in the CIA . So , as luck would have it for Oleg , the Brits were n’t distinguish the CIA about Tickle ’s identity .
That was in part because they enjoyed drop closed book over the Americans . So that ’s really a win for being petty .
Arturo : You know , they ’re like , give thanks you . Thank you for being mad at your cousin . So the Russians were really on the hunt for their treasonist . And if the KGB found out that it was Oleg , this is what they do .
They ’d call him back to Russia to squeeze him for information before they finally did out with him . Right ? But now , if he needed an escape route back to England , he would postulate to get his wife and his two kids out as well . So together with the British spies , they cooked up this plan telephone “ Operation Pimlico , ” make for the Pimlico neighborhood in London .
Are you ready for the tops well-informed undercover agent design , Ed ?
Ed : Oh yeah , this is a skilful one .
Arturo Castro : Yeah . OK , here we go . Very elaborate .
If thing go bad in Russia , they would stuff Oleg in the trunk of a cable car and drive like f***ing hell to Europe .
That ’s it . That was the programme . I sh*t you not , and if the whole Gordievsky family was together , then the plan became much more elaborate .
They would stuff one Isle of Man , one woman , and two children in the bole of two cars and then push back like blaze to Europe . Woo . Thank God . I would , I would be like , guys , I palpate safe . I sense heard . I feel silent .
Ed : I would be like , OK , so I ’m gon na go back . I ’m in London . I ’m happy as a clam , my family ’s all well-chosen . I ’m about to go back to Russia to receive out if they know I ’m a spy . If they do know I ’m a spy , then you stick me in a tree trunk and try out to get me back . And by the way , I ’m also claustrophobic , so I ’m not down with any of this .
Arturo : No , also , but that you bring up a really interesting point that I ’m like , why do you go back anyway ? Like , you live what I ’m say ? If you experience that you are in imminent threat , why go through the f***ing outgrowth of like , just checking in , you do it ?
erectile dysfunction : Because I intend it ’s , you , you ’re getting into the psychology of undercover agent at this point , which I can never wrap my headland around . Um , like the amount of information and the amount of kind of like , uh , ruses and , and lies that you have to kind of uphold to be a , a spy , let alone a double agentive role . Right . It ’s incredible . It ’s mind blowing . And what ’s more harebrained about these guys , people wish , uh , Gordievsky and , uh , I , I induce to interview , um , uh , a KGB spy .
Arturo : Yeah , you did ? Whoa .
male erecticle dysfunction : A guy wire named Jack Barsky , yeah . And , and what ’s crazy about these guys is that they ’re , they ’re , they ’re so confident . If you were like , OK , Moscow wants you to come home and check in , and if you do n’t number home , then they ’re gon na have intercourse you ’re a double agent and so you well go home .
But so , in my mind , you ’re like , uh , well peradventure I should just take my chances and ride out here because if I do go back and then they , then they interrogate me , am I more chouse ? Well , a guy like Gordievsky is so convinced that he ’s been playing his cards absolutely the whole metre that he ’s like , eh , I ’ll just go back .
Cause they don’t — I know they do n’t have anything on me . I have it away that they might distrust I ’m a double agentive role , but they ca n’t prove it , and I know they ca n’t shew it . Now what ? That ’s an insane horizontal surface of confidence . Like to me , I would be like , I believe I covered all my floor , but I ’m not indisputable .
Arturo : I feel like it would n’t take that much if they , they secern me , come back to Russia . I was like , that ’s it . I ’m numb . No , f * * * it , I ’m staying . But you , you know , to your point too , like that — once you ’re in that mindset , and you ’ve been so used to just playing this plug-in , that I do n’t think it , it dawns on you the option of just stick around , right ?
Because then that just defeats a whole matter that you , like , whatever — you build your personality around and your mind game about , like you do n’t know how to do anything , or you ’re sort of going on autopilot by going back to the Soviet Union .
erectile dysfunction : And we ’re take care at this from the standpoint of like — we’re just average schmoes , who , if we got put in these situations , we would melt down and let the cat out of the bag like a canary and just be like , I ’m shamefaced . I did it . All right .
At this point , Oleg Gordievsky is , I think he ’s been a double agent for over 10 years .
He has an incredible , uh , fix of skills , arrange of kind of like , mind game and like I said , trust and this is just part of it . You go back and you recreate the game and he just feels like he ’ll get away with it and he ’ll get send right back .
Arturo : But that almost — that authority almost sting him in the tail end .
Ed : It did , it did .
Arturo : It really did . Yeah . So in May 1985 , it finally happened , right ? The — the KGB recalled Oleg to Moscow via Telegram . So they said that he was receive a furtherance and require to make out back for some gamy spirit level privy preparations , but things did n’t feel quite right-hand for Oleg , right ?
He substantiate with his British contacts : If he gave the sign , they would set in motion Operation Pimlico to get him out of Russia .
CHAPTER 4: Eyes Everywhere
Arturo : On May 19 , 1985 , Oleg go far in Moscow where he had had an apartment . There ’s a feeling that he got . He describes the chill hit up his backbone , which , if you ’re a spy like Oleg , that does n’t seem overly paranoid , that ’s a really bad sign . The standstill — the bolt lock on his apartment had been turned . So his billet must have been disentangle by other agents before he arrived . They were seek smartly for gay pornography . On the bright side , he was now a colonel in the KGB , so there were principle about how to care for somebody of his social status .
The Soviets actually had to conglomerate evidence and hold a trial run if they suspect him . So that bought him some time . But Oleg get laid that they were onto him .
Ed : Mm - hmm .
Arturo : After a few days , Gordievsky was called in for inquiring , and this is where we ’re talking about that we would ’ve f***ing folded . This guy in the examination — the other KGB agents devote a spiked Brandy and poke for detail about his British and Danish contact . They asked him head for 60 minutes and eventually Oleg nigrify out . Now he does n’t even know what the f * * * happened . He was just allowed to leave after he come to , so he could only guess that he did n’t give up anything about his counter espionage .
How fing scared would you be , bro ? If you were like , if you ’re like , do you think you have your sht together ? And then you melanise out and then you come in back and we have all we wanted , like — I’m like , what have I — like fashion plate , I have two tequilas . I ’m like shed f*ing family secrets , man like –
Ed : Yeah . I can not even suppose that .
Arturo : Yeah . At the end of May , Leila and the kids were brought back to Moscow and told that Oleg was sick . But … when they get there , he did n’t wanna get them bed how dangerous thing were . So he acted like thing were , you know like everything ’s fine ! I ’m ok ! You guy wire , OK ! Do n’t be weird about it .
And he sent them off to a vacation at the Caspian Sea .
Saying goodbye was the hardest thing he ’d ever done , because , you know , by the time they would get back to Moscow , he was either gon na be dead … or in exile .
CHAPTER 5: Chew On This
Arturo : After his time in the infirmary , he was back in Moscow that July , he felt eyes on him everywhere , good ? He feared it was only a subject of fourth dimension before he was snap . So if it was finally time to engage in Pimlico , so — the plan was presuppose to go like this .
Oleg was supposed to stand on the street at 7:30 a.m. and he would be carry a of the essence signal , this plastic bag from the Safeway grocery computer memory signaling that he need a good way out of this f***ing topographic point . Can you believe ?
Ed : What ’s so insane is it ’s like we give these spy so much credit for being like masterminds and , and coming up with these elaborate schemes . And you may just opine Oleg talk to his MI-6 handlers and he is like , OK , so , so , so , so what ’s the program guys ? And they ’re like , uh , you gon na stand there with a grocery dish ?
If it ’s a — if it ’s a Safeway grocery bag , [ you ’re ] gon na climb up in the luggage compartment . Wait , what ? That ’s it ?
Arturo : OK but is there more to …
Ed : And then , but , and then , and then what ? Oh , well then we just drive . We labour . OK . And you go , we go to — it ’s like a secure planetary house somewhere . And then we get in a hot air balloon — or no , no , no , no . We just , we just go , we drive to , to , to Europe .
Arturo : And we hope for the upright , we ’re –
Ed : We hope –
Arturo:–but we ’re gon na bring really positive attitudes .
Ed : Yeah . And yes , I forgot there ’s a lot of prescribed energy around , around this whole operation . We , we ’ve been — we’ve been doing a quite a little of like , you know –
Arturo : Soul research ,
Ed : Yeah . A lot of speculation . We ’re just vex , we ’re getting really psyched about it .
Arturo : we’re bringing our energy private instructor Ananda , his real name is Jeff , but he is coming along for the ride and he ’s very unrestrained .
Ed : Yeah . So , wait , I just wanna be clear . So I just hail to stand there with a travelling bag , and then I just jump in a railcar and in the trunk of a car and , and that ’s it ?
Arturo : Yep .
Ed : Aren’t we fing spies ? Are n’t we fing spy ? ! Are n’t we supposed to amount up with cool sh*t like , that does n’t sound — that does n’t sound good enough !
So in response to this f***ing Safeway purse , another valet would walk past him support a unripe bag from the luxury department store Harrods , and he would be rust a coffee bar .
Then Oleg was supposed to wait for three day , go to church and pass a slight note with the details of his situation , and then waitress again . So Oleg followed his plan , right ? He did his little Safeway frequent back matter at the street corner , substance sent , but he did n’t notice anybody else following the plan .
There were no Harrods handbag , no chocolates being eaten . So Oleg nervously waited three days and went to church , and he scribble on a piffling note of hand that he was quick to pass along , right ? And it said , need exfiltration . He worry the whole way that he was gon na be found out because part of the plan was for him to wear a lid in church . And no one wears a lid in church .
Ed : No , not in Moscow . No way .
Arturo : Not in Moscow . You do n’t . When Oleg vex to the church , there was a preindication cling out in the front which said , all , all chapeau are welcome . No , they just said that it was closed for redecoration . So Oleg freaked the f * * * out . He scud back home , chew up and withdraw his note so it would never be feel .
And to sleep , he crammed himself with depressant and Cuban rummy , which also , to be honest , at this stage of his , uh , exfiltration , I would be a full blown alcoholic , human . Like , you bring forth ta have something going on for you to calm the nerves .
Ed : Yeah , I mean the , the anxiety –
Arturo : Horrible .
Ed:–that ’s what I , I just ca n’t imagine . I , I ca n’t carry a heap , like any kind of prevarication around . I , I just , I ca n’t tear it off . I ’m , I ’m too — I’m just too much of a spooky Nellie to — let alone like these grand life or death , you know ? It ’s just –
Arturo : I , I spend sleepless night . If , if a waiter order , welcome to the eating house , and I say , thanks , you too . Like I , I ’ll pass a lidless night being like , oh f * * * , I fed it up . I fed it , you bed ?
male erecticle dysfunction : He was already there . He did n’t [ crosstalk ] .
Arturo : He was already there . He did n’t know . He does n’t , yeah , I ’m the one coming to his establishment . God damnit , what a unmannered thing to say .
So the next Tuesday , anxiousness drive as he is — he went back to the street box once again . He flew his Safeway shopping bag and he was just scream internally the whole clip until lastly another man walk by him stockpile a green grip and munching on a chocolate Mars barroom while progress to direct center contact with Oleg as he demonstrate by . Message received .
Arturo : Uh , also , I , I mean , such an embarrassing f***ing privy spy sign , but , f * * * it .
Ed : It ’s concentrated to look sort of serious and — and like , a undercover agent guy manducate on a chocolate taproom .
Arturo : And realize uninterrupted eye link . Like what ? And it turned out to be the Danish broker . Like he ’s hoping for a second run at the honey mickle . He ’s like , you were gon na f***ing face me in the eye this prison term . So for the next two days , Oleg see friend and family , saying his cheerio . You know , he — he talked about literature with his friends . He jogged around his neighborhood . He try out to act as normal as possible . He was the only one that knew that he was about to run for his life in a very non - complicated direction .
CHAPTER 6: Drunk in a Trunk
Arturo : So now we get to the net bit of it , which is — the twenty-four hours finally came . Oleg ducked out of his apartment . Now he live he was being observe , so he jogged directly into a thick patch of trees . And zig zagged his fashion to the train station where he board on a stumble toward Finland . And this misstep was wild , humankind . So Oleg took too many sedatives on the railroad train , and then he ended up fall out of a in high spirits bunk bottom and gash his head clear .
So he slip up around bleeding on people . Like , I ’m sorry , I ’m dark . No , not just . Keeping a low visibility , right ?
Ed : Yeah , on the nose .
Arturo : Screaming about Harrods and Safeways like , shut the f * * * up . Oleg . You ’re so close . Now . When he ultimately catch a bus near the Finnish boundary line , Oleg went through a bonkers successiveness of event , right , to get to the — to get the bus to block at the correct place . He win over the driver to deplumate over , telling him that he was gon na barf all over the bum .
So the coach let him out on the side of the road where he pretended to yak into the President George W. Bush until it drove away . Once he was alone , Oleg realize that he was way too early for his get together with the British spies to pick him up . So what does he do ? He , he –
Ed : This is awful . This is sincerely the hubris of these guy
Arturo : So , you live what . This is f***ing freak . So he — he waits , does he await for like a little , like a good fiddling spy flaw , or no .
erectile dysfunction : Like , like what , what should you do ? What should you do in this post , Arturo ?
Arturo : You should fing stand there and expect . You stand there and you fin wait .
male erecticle dysfunction : You digest there or you , or you … or you cover in the bush and you just , You ’re like , he was like four hours early , right ? Like it was n’t that long .
Arturo : That ’s it . It ’s not like a day early , man . Like , you do n’t have to wish , survive .
male erecticle dysfunction : Just hide and , and like , take a cat sleep .
Arturo : Well watch the great unwashed going , going by . Read a f***ing Koran , but no , no . Our pal Oleg had a small , he had a little rumbly in his little tummy . So he decided to hitchhike to the nearest town and ride down for tiffin . He slammed down a beer . He ate some chicken , bought another beer for the route , and he started walking back to the get together place .
Ed : By the direction , it ’s 18 mile . It ’s not just like around the turning point . It ’s like , it’s — it ’s far .
Arturo : How fast are you walking , bro ? Like , yeah , it ’s , it ’s whole far .
erectile dysfunction : You got four hours .
Arturo : And only , only now he realize that he had take too long and that he might be recent . This is the first moment it hit him when he is walking back , right ?
Ed : Yeah .
Arturo : So internally , he was like , what the f * * * am I doing ? Like , why did I not just await there ? Because externally he was just like walking around with bottled beer , sprinting down the road as tight as it could be . Like , I ’m sorry , I ’m grim . You experience , the defective of all he was wearing corduroy trouser , which is a very — you know , like that ’s a lot of chafing , chum . You sleep together ? I do n’t know about — if , if you ’ve ever bought them .
male erecticle dysfunction : Well it ’s go , it ’s gon na make a lot of racket . That ’s a pile of swooshing .
Arturo : None of this is undercover agent - comparable . Like , he ’s like — just wimp . His pieces of chicken are fall off of him . He ’s boozing beer . He ’s just in corduroys … weird .
So fortuitously , Oleg finally pick up a truck going in the right counseling . So he stuck out a thumb and view another ride back to cut through the 16 mi . He would ’ve never made it on his own . Now this is a rightful write up . He attempt to — so as to win over the hand truck driver to block up in the middle of nowhere , Oleg told the truck machine driver that he had an appointment to have sex in the woods . And the driver agreed . plain the number one wood did n’t look at his corduroy pants because everybody bang you ca n’t have gender in the woods with corduroy pant .
Ed : I guess that is a good , a good elbow room to just sort of be like , Hey , we ’re in the heart of nowhere , but I want to get outta your truck . Like , what , what could , could you get ? Is there any other unspoilt reason …
Arturo : A good self-justification is that I would get be — like , I am so deplorable . Listen dude , I was planning on robbing you , but I ’ve alter my mind . lead me off here . You know , one of these , which , but it might get you shot . I do n’t know . Um –
Ed : I’m a plant scientist and there ’s like a really rare plant over here .
Arturo : Yeah . What is that telephone ? The fing Audubon Society . It ’s like , if I do n’t fing catch this Bronx cheer , I ’m gon na be an embarrassment . You understand ? And the truck driver being a fellow Audubon Society member — say no more .
male erecticle dysfunction : Oh yeah . Get out .
Arturo : The problem was getting him to go away .
male erecticle dysfunction : Keep me posted .
Arturo : Yeah that ’s right , keep me post . Here ’s my number .
Um , so Oleg swatted mosquitoes and swigged from his beer once he finally stimulate there , and uh , finally he ’s wait on the spot where — his two car get out up and his rescuers jumped out . Now they were surprised to see only one man and not the whole family as they had planned for , but they afford the trunk for Oleg and he plunge inside and they rev up the engines . And now Oleg was in conclusion racing towards the delimitation .
Now in the body he had a bottleful of water , sedatives for his child , which he ’s not gon na habituate now , and a space cover . They also knew that the Soviets scanned cars with infrared cameras at the Finnish border , so they hoped that the metallic space blanket would obliterate Oleg from the cameras and tolerate them to overstep through . Did they do any f***ing examination to any — like they were hoping , that like — you were –
Ed : Here ’s like some plastic cellophane . twine yourself in this .
Arturo : Chew , chew on these deoxyephedrine cube . That ’s gon na make — convey your body temperature down . Um , so the , the sedatives were Oleg ’s first move . He pounded them , and fortunately they also gave him an empty jugful for piss .
Now , over the next half hour from the swarthiness of the torso , uh , Oleg felt up them stop at four different Soviet checkpoint on the elbow room to the edge . They all seemed to be quick conversation while the driver and , and the passengers showed paper . But they proceed music playing in the car tuner , and it seemed like they were doing just fine .
Now , the fifth plosive consonant is when it gets slippery . The locomotive engine switched off and Oleg could hear voice , they had reached customs . Oleg heard the officer talking and men with dogs circling the cars . Now one of the British officers started feeding chips to the dogs while another complain with a Soviet official about the chafe of scholar in Moscow .
That was it . That was like — what , like , they , they base his one niche matter that he loves to complain about , so he rent him go . So in the end , after what felt like an hour , the British officers climbed back indoors , the car cross from the highway to a grunge route –
erectile dysfunction : Wait , hold on . They did n’t just check the trunk ?
Arturo : Nope ! Uh - uh . Because the British spies were just like , f***ing students . Am I right ? They were both from , like , I do n’t experience , Bensonhurst , Brooklyn , in this scenario . But there was also one more matter , which was that the British agents bring a child with them . And while the guards were blab with the driver , she actually got out and give the babe a diaper change on the trunk of the automobile ! So the Soviet guards just , like , I don’t — I do n’t wish your child . This is poop . I do n’t like to do this . So they did n’t make them open up it .
Ed : What ? !
Arturo : So , they managed to talk their elbow room out of it by complaining about bookman in Moscow and by feeding chips to the dogs .
Ed : … alright .
Arturo : So in the end , after all this latent hostility , they’re — they’re [ on ] a dirt road and they finally come to a plosive consonant outside a point of view of pine trees . When the trunk opens , Oleg was met by the friendly face of his English animal trainer . He had just escape the KGB . Yay . beneficial for you !
Ed : Yay !
Arturo : But he had left his family behind . Oooh .
Ed : There — there ’s some aspect to a lot of these guys that ’s slightly psychopathic .
CHAPTER 7: Reunion
Arturo : So , because it was successful , Operation Pimlico is remembered as one of the most venturesome escapes of the Cold War . A lot of other KGB defector died trying to hightail it . So it ’s kind of a miracle — like truly!—that Gordievsky find out . Ever since , he ’s essentially spent the rest of his life trying not to get killed by KGB assassin . Now , MI-6 was n’t surprised , of course . Like one military officer state , he made inviolable fools of the KGB .
The only way that they did have to get back at him was to hold his household surety . So Oleg lead off buttonhole world leaders , asking them for help . He even wing to the U.S. and he went to the White House where he met with President Reagan , and he asked for the U.S. to get his Kyd back .
Ed : This is also a absorbing second , uh , in , in the able-bodied Archer story because in the run up to the , the Able Archer conflict , Oleg Gordievsky was trying to tell his Soviet handler that guy cable , there ’s not , like , there ’s crazy tension between the East and the West , but they ’re not trying to nuke you . They ’re not planning to nuke you .
When he went to lecture to Reagan , he actually was , was also trying to — to take credit for avoiding nuclear conflict to some extent . Like to — you lie with , by suppose like , look , I helped avoid , you know , a nuclear holocaust during Able Archer because I was tell both sides the right matter . And , um , and that ’s another reason why you should really think about helping me .
Ed : And it was , it was pretty safe leverage . Like , it — it was a good tarradiddle that he , that he severalise and , and it , and , but , but what ’s fascinating from a historic standpoint is like , you know , a lot of historians relied on his account of Able Archer , uh , and then …
Arturo : Oh , the entropy came from him ? Of what Russians were …
Ed : Well just , you know , his — his narrative of what was happen at that time was , was , is sort of an important part of the historic record , but it ’s also , you’re able to now interpret that deep conflict of interest group in like — of line it behooves him to , uh , to , to pad his own part in the Able Archer crisis because now it ’s a grounds to help get his family out of , out of Russia . He can like put , you have it away , he can tell , uh , alien leaders wish , see , I aid keep the creation . Now you need to help me get my family out .
Arturo : Like it ’s a , it might be an unreliable narrator sort of vibe .
Ed : Yeah . Yeah . Exactly .
Arturo : If it was true , then it ’s , it was a neat detriment to the , uh , easing of tensions that you lost the , like — one of the only guys in the room being like , guys , nobody ’s f***ing fighting . You ’re in effect . Everybody ’s OK .
Ed : Yeah . Yeah .
Arturo : But like , unfortunately , he had to go to Britain to , to chill . So in the years since , uh , after he went to talk to Reagan , Oleg had been in concealing and he has lived in safe houses and had to keep watch for Russian assassination effort ever since . But there is one bright spot though . In 1991 when the Russian politics was in turmoil , new leadership step in and looking to make indemnification with the Westernworld , they finally let Leila and the little girl go . They reunited with Oleg that September . Three month after Oleg and his family got back together , the Soviet Union collapsed . So in the end , tickling , titillation , tickle won . Yeah !
Outro
Arturo : Anyway , that ’s our story . Ed , thank you so much for being a part of it , man .
Ed : I love it !
Arturo : And thanks for adding so many , so many interesting details of it . I did n’t know that the conversation with Reagan was because a self-aggrandizing part of it was –
Ed : It was part of the color of that conversation . Yeah .
Arturo : One hundred per centum . I wanna lecture aboutSNAFUfor a second too , if you do n’t mind .
male erecticle dysfunction : So Season 1 is , uh , the report of Able Archer 83 , which was an consequence in 1983 . It was the height of the Cold War , and there was so much tension between the United States or NATO and the Soviet Union that this capable Archer exercise , which by any other measurement , was just a normal military exercise , was suddenly getting render by the Soviets as possible staging for a real atomic attack and basically there was this , this form of like eye mask reciprocating volute of , uh , fear and outrage and misapprehension and miscommunications .
Arturo : Yeah — attender should go to it because it gives such rich context while also being quite funny and entertaining and f***ing shuddery .
Ed : It ’s , uh , such a nerveless story . Thank you for , uh , for have me on to speak about this .
Arturo : Awesome , man . Well , listen , we ca n’t wait to try your band play and to observe you in whatever awing motion picture or show you slip next – and I can not waitress to listen to moreSNAFU . Season 2 is out now , and Season 3 is coming soon , correct ? I appreciate you make out on , brother . Thank you so much .
Ed : give thanks you , Arturo . You ’re so awesome at what you do . Keep doing it . Thanks a lot .
Arturo : Thank you so much . Later , brother . Bye .
Credits
Arturo : Greatest Escapesis a production of iHeartRadio and FilmNation Entertainment , in connection with Gilded Audio . Our executive producer are me , Arturo Castro , Alyssa Martino and Milan Popelka from FilmNation Entertainment , Andrew Chugg and Whitney Donaldson from Gilded Audio , and Dylan Fagan from iHeartRadio .
The show is produced and edited by Carl Nellis and Ben Chugg , who are also , respectively , our research overlord and euphony overlord . Our associate producer is Tory Smith , who is our other overlord .
Nick Dooley is our expert managing director . Additional editing by Whitney Donaldson . Special thanks to Alison Cohen , Dan Welsh , Ben Ryzack , Sara Joyner , Nicki Stein , Olivia Canny , and Kelsey Albright .
Hey , thank you so much for listening , and if you ’re enjoying the show , please leave a rating or revaluation . My mummy will call you each personally and thank you , and we ’ll see you all next week .
